Random ramblings

[hatman]

What's the most iconic city in England? If I asked you to name a city in England, what's the first one you'd name? If you were going to tour the country, to see its heart, which city would you have to visit? London, of course. The capital city.

What about France? Paris. The capital city.

Egypt? Cairo. The capital.

China? Bejing/Peking. The capital.

You get the idea. Pick just about any country, and it's the capital. But what about the US? Maybe I'm influenced by proximity, but I'd say that arguably the most iconic city in the country is New York. Which isn't even the capital of the state. (That's Albany. And if you've never heard of it before... I can't say I blame you.) LA is probably the second. Going down the list, there's Boston and Chicago... you'd have a ways to go before you got to D.C. (Or at least so it seems to me.)

Why is that? In part, I guess it's the history of it. Most capitals became capitals because they were major, influential cities. DC was created to be the capital, its location a compromise, moved from more northern proposals (such as New York, already an established major city) to help get the Southern states to pay an even share of the more heavily Northern debts from the Revolutionary War.

Even so, that was two hundred years ago. DC has grown, but not nearly so much (or, arguably, so well) as New York and other cities. Outside of the Federal buildings (Capitol Hill, the National Mall, etc.), it's not a city to really show off. (Which I've always thought was a disappointment and a shame.)

Why has it developed this way? What does it say about us?

Or are my perceptions just skewed? (Though since this mostly is about perceptions, any skewing I might have might just be considered exactly the point...)

Comments

[stellar_dust]

Well, the US is a constructed nation, and those older ones, as you said, developed organically over centuries with a "natural" capital. A fairer comparison would be to other planned colonial states - like Canada (I think of Toronto or Montreal or Vancouver before Ottawa) or Australia (Sydney? Brisbane? No, it's Canberra). Mexico has Mexico City, but it was built on top of Tenochtitlan, so there's a continuity there that's absent in the US.

Anyway, I think DC is a lovely city, with plenty of history! And I like its metro much better than NY or Boston's. d-:

[hatman]

Yeah, I'd never even heard of Canberra. Good point about that, and our neighbors. Interesting.

As for the metro... it's a matter of personal taste and what you're used to, I guess.

I look at parts of Philly and see dirt, dilapidation^*, and broken and faded dreams. I think of how my sister's bike was stolen in broad daylight on her first day, of the junkie who lived passed out literally around the corner from her apartment in the heart of the city, of the women who were attacked walking a single block from the bus stop home. There are parts of the city that are very cool, but outside those carefully maintained islands... Well, I try not to go there.

Mom, on the other hand, sees past that. She looks and sees the charm and variety and the history and she thinks it's beautiful. (I see that, too, but to me it just makes it sadder. I can see what the city could have been, what it was supposed to have been, what it used to be, what it was meant to be... and how far it's fallen from there.)

She also loves New York, which I've always found claustrophobic and a little too much.

To me, Boston is much closer to the ideal. The charm and history, the openness, the blending of urban, suburban, and rural...

It's all in how you see it. And what you, individually, are looking for.

^*Holy crow, I spelled that right on the first try!

[yvi]

Here via the network page...

I don't think this is in any way restricted to the US and has more to do with the fact that people will just pick the biggest city, which is often the capital, but not always.

Australia? People will say Sydney instead of Canberra.

Switzerland? Zürich instead of Bern.

New Zealand? I would say Auckland.

South Africa? Johannesburg.

For Germany, I suppose a lot of people would say Munich, just because of the Oktoberfest :)

I didn't know Washington was built to be the capital and I suspect a lot of other people outside of the US also don't. Says nothing about the US for me and different from what it's like with a few of the other countries I just listed, most people actually know that New York isn't the capital. Try asking people outside of Europe what the capital of Switzerland is ;)

[zorkian]

Personally I would say Berlin, because of the whole Berlin Wall thing and East/West Germany and that sort of culture, growing up in the 80s and hearing about it coming down, seeing it on TV, etc.

[yvi]

*nods* I do think most would say Berlin, but Munich is very, very popular in some countries.

I will now not go into the topic of Bavaria and how some people need to learn that it's only one of 15 German states and so on :)

[dave7.livejournal.com]

Nope, I don't think your perceptions are skewed at all. As a Visitor to Your Country (tm) I went straight for New York. On my return trip, should I make one? I'm going to LA.

But then, it's exactly the same thing here... You think of going to Australia, you think of Sydney or Melbourne or Brisbane. Nobody thinks of Canberra - which was also created to be our Capital (as a compromise between Sydney and Melbourne). Perhaps you're on to something.

[pgwfolc.livejournal.com]

Huh. I never even heard of Canberra. I thought the capital was Sydney. Interesting.

(And hey, you were in NYC and didn't tell me? :( )

[dave7.livejournal.com]

I was... about 10 years ago. *g*

[pgwfolc.livejournal.com]

10 years ago? Well, you should have called me, anyway! I was... actually, probably in Boston. Fine. You're off the hook. This time. ;)

[brianamj.livejournal.com]

I think it's more due to culture than anything. DC does have museums, but unless you're an American, that's the only real appeal. And most of the museums are political and government related, with the exception of the massive Smithsonian. You go to NYC, you have Broadway, the Statue of Liberty (a long-standing international symbol of hope and freedom), museums galore, and other cultural sights. LA, Boston, Chicago, they all beat out DC when it comes to diversified culture. There's limited history no matter where you go, compared to the rest of the world, but NYC has as much, if not more, than DC.

I also wonder, if you ask non-Americans, how many people would say NYC was the capitol of the US instead of DC?

[pgwfolc.livejournal.com]

Well, as Dave pointed out, Australia has the same thing going on... I'd never even heard of their capital city, assuming it was Sydney instead. A few other instances were mentioned DW-side.

But the thing about NYC having Broadway and all that stuff... that's kind of my point. By all rights, the capital city should have those things, shouldn't it? But ours doesn't.

Still, I think most people could name the capital of the US if asked. But only because of our importance on the world stage. (Actually, it reminds me of the bit from the Daily Show where they interviewed people in the streets of Baghdad and found that they knew more about the US and its history than the average person in the streets of NYC. Though of course there's no telling how many people they interviewed who didn't get included in the segment.)

[theblackshadow.livejournal.com]

I love DC just as much as I love New York. I'm an art junkie, and I would totally move into places like the National Gallery, the Phillips Collection, and the National Portrait Gallery. But I'm not sure I would have originally found those places on my own, and that's clearly not the case in NYC. You can't sneeze without reading about a famous place in the media. In D.C. the food is also awesome, the monuments are awesome...but it's hard for me to tell my visiting friends, "Sure! Go to D.C. first instead of New York!" There's just too much hype about NYC, and too many well-publicized places that people will feel like they missed out on. There are a lot of cool things in NYC, but I also blame the crap media (as usual :P) for not seeking out the cool things to do in our capital city.

Me? You can find me still drooling over the Cezanne collection at the Phillips. :D

[doranwen.livejournal.com]

I have absolutely nothing new to contribute (except that maybe once upon a time I knew about Canberra but had since forgotten and I think if you'd asked me I'd have said Sydney too!), but this discussion is seriously interesting and was very enjoyable to read. :)