hatman | (no subject)

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So, Back to the Future and Back to the Future Part 2 were on TV yesterday. (Strangely, the movie on after those two was not BTTF3.)

And I noticed something.

1. In BTTF 1, Marty goes back in time, changes things, and comes back to find the future (his present) changed. Makes sense.

2. In BTTF 2, Biff steals the time machine, goes back to 1955, changes things, comes back satisfied with a job well done, and leaves the DeLorean right back where he found it.

3. Then Marty and Doc go back to 1985 to find it changed. Because Biff changed the past. Makes sense.

4. So Marty says maybe they should go back to the future and stop Biff from stealing the time machine. But Doc says that no, it wouldn't work because Biff having changed things created a new, alternate timeline, and they'd just end up going to the future of the new world, where Biff rules. Makes sense. So instead they have go back to 1955 and stop Biff there.

What we have, then, is a very sensible, clearly established rule: If you go back in time and change things, you create a new timeline from that point forward.

So how did Biff return the time machine to the same future from which he stole it?

I know, OMG, a plot hole in a fun and silly movie. The shock!

But for some reason, I don't think I noticed that one before, and now it's kind of bugging me. It can't be that this is a Biff from a different timeline returning the time machine to a future that's changed to him, but it makes no sense for the old Biff we saw in 1955 to have come back to the same 2015 he left. (It makes even less sense than the thick-headed Biff we've consistently seen managing to always win on longshot bets to the point that he becomes one of the richest men in the world, and yet never get caught out or successfully investigated along the way. Or have people stop accepting his bets.)

Oh well.

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You know what always bothered me? In Tempus Fugitive, HG Wells says Lois and Clark aren't going to remember the events of the episode because he's going to return them to the point right before he grabbed them from the newsroom. WHATTTT. That makes absolutely no sense to me.

I don't usually bother myself about pseudo-science and stuff that is obviously made up, but little plot holes like that do bug me. I haven't seen BTTF, but I'd say this is a case of the timeline righting itself, maybe? I know, reaching. Maybe only certain things changed and the far future was unaffected.

Yeah, that one always bothered me, too. There was some fic where it was expanded so that what he actually did was wipe their memories with some futuristic hypnotizing gadget or something and then return them to just before they left. But no, there is no logical reason why just returning them to that point would erase their memories as if the whole thing never happened - especially since Lois's envelope made it through. And then it was undone when they saw Wells again in S4 and he talked to them and suddenly their memories were restored.

Ugh. It's so rare to find good time travel writing.

The thing is that BTTF usually handles it reasonably well. Doc even explains about the alternate timelines in clear, plain English, with a chalkboard diagram to help it all make sense. It's just this one instance where they break all the rules just because they needed the time machine to be returned so that Marty and Doc would be able to go back to 1985 (without suspecting a thing until they got there).

The timeline restoring itself is a long shot, especially since that kind of goes against one of the movies' themes.

Ah well.

That said...

You haven't seen BTTF?!

Go fix that! It's a classic! It's such a classic that they remade the same movie twice and people still loved it! (Okay, technically they're sequels. And some stuff does happen differently. And each takes place in a different time period which lends itself to all sorts of new fun. But still... same movie.)

Three movies. Six hours. Good fun that you somehow haven't seen. One of these days when you're going to sit down for a marathon session of some half-decent TV show that you've already seen... go watch BTTF instead. Maybe not the best 6 hours of your life, but you won't regret it.

You've got five years. Part II takes place in October of 2015. You can find six hours in the next five years.

Meantime... at least tell me that you've seen Ferris Bueler's Day Off. I can rest easy on that score, right?

Haha... okay, I'll make sure to see them... but I haven't seen Ferris Bueler's Day Off... XD I really suck at being up on movies, I know...

Well, before your time. I saw BTTF in theaters. You weren't born. I remember going to see parts 2 & 3 when they were released together. You were a toddler.

You also weren't born when Ferris Bueller came out.

Which is to say... I'm old. ;)

But Bueller is a must-see. Second only to Princess Bride, I think.

I'm behind on more recent movies too, you give me too much credit. XD And I've seen a good number of old movies, so it's not really that. (BUT I HAVE SEEN THE PRINCESS BRIDE!) A few years ago my friends made me watch Bambi and the Little Mermaid because they couldn't stand that I hadn't seen them. Also, still haven't seen the Disney version of Snow White, and only half of Beauty and the Beast.

Eh, recent movies suck. ;) Nothing to worry about there.

But yes, I thought I remembered you'd seen Princess Bride. Still, that's a relief.

Bambi you do sort of have to see, yes. And definitely Little Mermaid. Beauty and the Beast was classic. Aladdin, too. Disney knew how to make good movies, once upon a time. Snow White is more Bambi-era, if that tells you anything. I think Disney kind of grew up over the years, playing to somewhat older audiences, adding a little more depth and complexity at the cost of a few shades of wide-eyed innocence.

How are you on Pixar? (As long as we're adding to your netflix list... ;) )

Oh, and Indiana Jones? Romancing the Stone? Crocodile Dundee? Neverending Story?

(Still can't believe my niece and nephew didn't like ET...)

Oh, and Indiana Jones? Romancing the Stone? Crocodile Dundee? Neverending Story?

(Still can't believe my niece and nephew didn't like ET...)

Yeah, I haven't seen any of those...^^;; I think I've seen a few Pixar films, but still out on a few of the famous ones. (I've seen Toy Story but not the sequels.) Or Star Wars, though I keep intending to fix that.

I'm more a fan of musicals and happy kind of movies, like The Sound of Music, My Fair Lady, Pretty Woman.

Oh my. You do have some catching up to do, don't you? ;)

Though happy musicals are good. Mary Poppins, Chitty Chitty Bang Bang, and the original Charlie & the Chocolate Factory are big hits around here.

But if that's what you like, then definitely Pixar.

As for Star Wars... a little voice in the back of my head said I should mention it, but then I thought, "No way; everyone's seen Star Wars!" (Except for YellowDart, who finally did see it and suddenly became the biggest Star Wars fan ever. So be warned. ;) )

You might like Romancing the Stone and Jewel of the Nile... but to really appreciate them, you have to have seen Indiana Jones.

Paul, there's a book you might like -- I can't quite recall the title, but it was in the 900s section of the library and was called something like "A Traveler's Guide to TimeTravel" or somesuch. It's humorous, scientific, and probably right up your alley. :)

If I can find it again, I'll try to send you more info. (The copyright is dated for the 30th century or something...Darn, I wish I could remember the full title..)

Hmm. That does sound interesting. Is this it: Time Traveler: A Scientist's Personal Mission to Make Time Travel a Reality? If not, if you could dig up the title you were actually thinking of, I'd appreciate it.

Nnnnnope, not by a long shot. :( The book was written as though Time Travel was real and commonplace, and taught how it works and what you should expect. Sorry, I wish I could remember more. :p I think the book is in Florida.

Oh, and it has a "foreword by HG Wells"! ;)

lol, cool!

Hmm. Searching for "guide time traveler" instead of "guide time travel" brings up a bunch of new possibilities. Any of those look right?

Or, you know, I could just let you find it next time you're in Florida. But that would... take time.

Nope, those aren't it. :p Sorry! D:

Darn. I did get somewhat different results with one L in traveller instead of two (the link at the top of the search page there), including a couple of promising possibilities (most notably this one and this one), but nothing that seemed to exactly fit.

Guess I'll just have to wait for you to find your copy. Oh well.

. . . I'm strangely intrigued by this book. If you happen to find the exact info on it, I'd love to know too.

And lol, I never analyzed BTTF to pick up that errant point. I *think* I've seen all three, but I never sat down and watched them straight and it was years ago so I only vaguely remember the plot of the 1st, bits from the 2nd, and I remember the train scene near the end of the 3rd (and something about the pickup truck and wanting to race and his girlfriend begging him not to get into the stupid racing . . .). I really should re-watch them sometime.

She just found it!

Review here.

Some people on Amazon have cheap used copies for sale.

Paul, I think I found it! Here's a page about it: http://www.timetravelreviews.com/books/blumenthal.html

It finally occurred to me to search the library's site. It took a while, especially since I thought it was in the 900s and it was in the 800s, but I'm 85-95% sure that's the right book. =D

Huh. Cool. Well done! (And, while my library doesn't have it, Amazon seems to have a cheap used copy!) Might just have to pick that up. Thanks! :)

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FOUND IT!!!!!!!!!

Re: FOUND IT!!!!!!!!!